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Post by Motown Honey on Jul 1, 2007 0:48:39 GMT -5
I'm still thinking Inner stuck OUT on WGO, reprise effort noted. Everything else was more smooth and wicked, that was just wild and wicked. But it's still one of my favorites, the album, not so much Inner. And 4ever, you as the say are bugging out LOL As amazing as this album is and the artist is, at times I think both fall vic to what you said And y'all can blaze if y'all want I love Marvin Gaye, the artist and the, well what I know of the cat, or should I say character, so don't get me wrong, but it all gets a li'l overdone at times
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 7, 2007 17:26:14 GMT -5
@ (((Honey))) It fits for me, lol. It CLOSED the album, that's why I said it fit.
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Post by rainymourning on Jul 8, 2007 19:57:25 GMT -5
Don't shoot, but I always thought this was leaning toward overrated I don't think it is overrated but I understand where you are coming from. I think once all of the 'critical praise' is taken away and the album is left to stand on it's own, it does shine. Sometimes all of the 'hoopla' takes away from it IMO. But looking back I think Marvin did take a risk with his career at that period of time. Of course people were speaking up more on social issues but to do an entire album dedicated to those causes not knowing if there was going to be major backlash was brave and lucky for him it payed off.
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 15, 2007 14:24:09 GMT -5
That's why "What's Going On" was so different, people like to go "oh hogwash, the Temptations, Sly Stone and Curtis Mayfield were singing socially-conscious songs too!" But they didn't do a WHOLE album of it. The Tempts would have five or six good socially conscious songs and the rest will be love songs, same with Sly and Curtis. Even 1970's "Curtis", which is regarded as it should be as a magnum opus, had a love song dedicated to a woman or two or three.
But not "What's Going On": "What's Going On" - a love song dedicated to stopping war in both Vietnam and in the streets where protests were rampant. "What's Happening, Brother?" - the song basically was Marvin's brother's song in which Frankie came back to a different world to where he once lived. "Flying High in the Friendly Sky" - the song was basically a song about heroin addiction. "Save the Children" - a humanitarian-type song about helping out the children suffering. "God is Love" - a love song about God basically. "Mercy, Mercy Me" - a song about environmentalism. "Right On" - a song that talks about the two sides of the coin, the yin and the yang of life. "Wholy Holy" - a song about unifying and coming together. "Inner City Blues" - the magnum opus to the inner city.
NO SONG ABOUT A WOMAN WHATSOEVER.
That's what made the album revolutionary, that's why it's compared to a late-sixties Beatles album, why it's compared to a Bob Dylan album, why it's compared to what Bob Marley did years later, why it's compared to what Stevie did later on (though he never had a full album totally dedicated to socially conscious songs either, he always has had one or two songs about romance).
Marvin of course went to record more sensual material but he continued to bring out social messages in his music. But "What's Going On" truly did broke the mold in R&B. IMO, it don't get the true recognition it deserved. Matter of fact, none of Marvin's albums get the respect it deserved.
Artists of all genres have taken something from "What's Going On", from "Trouble Man", from "Let's Get It On", from "I Want You", from "Here, My Dear", from "In Our Lifetime", even "Midnight Love" (there's a song Donnie did on his "Daily News" CD titled "Robot" that sounds eerily like Marvin's "Midnight Lady"!). That's how you're viewed as an artist, when people emulate what you've done in your career, people have covered him, sampled him for hip-hop beats, some hip-hoppers and rock & roll artists have even copied his style of dress from the "Let's Get It On" period and even "What's Going On" (D'Angelo had a similar leather jacket on the cover of "Brown Sugar").
The thing is though Marvin was a brave artist, he did things his way and didn't care what anybody in the industry thought. He had to fight his way to express himself and this has rewarded him.
As overrated as it may be for all the praise it gets, it doesn't stop the fact that it's a timeless recording. If he hadn't done anything after that, he'll still be regarded as one of the greatest artists of all time.
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Post by Diamond Girl on Jul 17, 2007 22:16:10 GMT -5
I don't know about the last statement. If that was his last album, he'd be known as a one album wonder, much like that young girl, Lauryn Hill. All do respect, most give the nod to WGO and occassionally LGIO, but he's given all the credit and all his credit for WGO, I've read scathing reviews of Trouble Man, I think it has a lot to do with the comparison and the particular genre and the movie. I liked it, but compared to all the hype of WGO and LGIO it falls short. Who knows why? But I always give Donnie Hath the credit for the social consciousness in R&B, Sly was all together different and well the Tempts get some credit, a very little, because of their grammy and change in style. And the reason people give them some credit, nowhere near what they should be getting (Sly, Tempts/Barrett/Norm, Curtis, who can foregt that man, and poor Donnie Hath) is because the whole idea was done before Marvin, maybe not a whole album, but the virtual idea was done prior. They deserve as much as WGO gets, for a different reason, Sly was more Rock 'n Roll, the Tempts were basically R & B, had that whole thing established and practically changed their whole style, Curtis, well he's a genius, and he was doing things, well his took off a li'l more than JB, and Donnie Hath, he was the true R & B man doing socially conscious R & B, the originator of that whole neosoul. But because he was never the prince or prodigal son/brother of a label and that other rumor crap, he's never really acknowledged. Hey, look at Eddie K, he did the same a few years later, well more along the lines of the Tempts when he was there and Curtis, and we hear absolutely squat about it. I see that we, the people, place all of the greatness that was Marvin on WGO, and he wasn't alone, so why stop there? He was able to do, because of his position, to a large degree. I'm not taking away, but WGO is much more accepted and praised now than it was back then. It made a splash, a big one, but we moved on, it's what people get stuck on or in when they look back. It doesn't take away from Marvin persee, but I see why folks get aggravated or annoyed by it. It's like yeah we know, it's written, let's move on. Unfortunately, people want to put you in one place or one genre and stick you there. And with something this good, it's hard for some to see beyond it. The man was able to do his thing often. Give him the credit for that. Forget about the borrowers and copiers, he was what/who he was. JB gets his due and I rarely hear about the sampling stuff anymore. And look at Parliament and George, nobody gives them squat, and darn near every rapper has taking a toke off those beats. Leave Marvin and WGO be, it's been done over and over and over and over and over and over and over. And I could go on, but I'll stop 'cause I'm falling victim and feeding into what them, y'all and now I am talking about
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 18, 2007 12:09:59 GMT -5
Believe me I feel your pain, sis... I don't think they like giving black artists credit anyway be it Marvin or Curtis or Parliament, some even in the black community (check out Soul Patrol) have even gone as far to call George a jester rather than a prophet. "Trouble Man" is a great album because it was totally different from WGO and LGIO, I think that's why people lambasted the album, they lambasted IWY, HMD, IOL and ML without really getting into the music. Now Marvin's music is embraced more and more after he's died some 23 years and that's sad and it's even sadder when Donny Hathaway, a great soul prophet himself, doesn't get credit. Curtis Mayfield is often underrated, I don't think HE gets credit, Sly was one of the few black men to embrace rock & roll and brought out darker elements of funk and he's starting to get credit. I call it like it is tho... the mainstream media may have called Marvin a one-album wonder but the R&B world would've called him what he is - a great artist. So I kind of see your point there. It's all screwed up though.
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Post by Motown Honey on Jul 21, 2007 8:52:57 GMT -5
[quote author=timmy84 board=marvelous thread=1163525138 post=1184778599....the mainstream media may have called Marvin a one-album wonder [/quote] And this is what I was saying and what I see and what leads me to feel that way, na'mean Overrated in that sense and for that album, as great as it is, for me, it's just like enough of that already, can we move on to the other great ones. I feel like all his other stuff is glossed over and way too much is put on WGO and what he did on that album, or what they believe he did on there. I'd rather hear more about LGIO and IWY and HMD, oh I know that one won't get it, but a girl can wish
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 21, 2007 14:48:17 GMT -5
Now I DO believe that. Marvin's post-What's Going On output was as great as that album, maybe even better. Because vocally he was doing things no other artist had dared, musically he was more diverse and adapted to changing styles, and lyrically he was able to bring out more of his thought process. In fact, Marvin Gaye's entire career is UNDERRATED in its value, only hailed by one album, four songs and etc, etc, etc. So looking at it the way you two put it, I can finally see what you mean about it being overrated. Still a great album in his collection (in fact I've been playing it nonstop since Thursday) but he had more great albums after that.
Honestly, I think Here, My Dear IS his greatest.
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Post by Emerald City on Jul 22, 2007 19:26:04 GMT -5
Good point there ((Honey))...I usually see sometimes where folks will lump WGO, LGIT and IWY together but HMD hardly gets a mention...((Quick)) I think we may have to take a poll ...
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 22, 2007 22:46:41 GMT -5
I'll accept.
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