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Post by timmy84 on Jul 17, 2006 16:26:27 GMT -5
You're right about that. It's right for some things and it's right for others. So I get what you're saying about that.
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Post by Motorcity on Jul 18, 2006 22:40:18 GMT -5
You're right about that. It's right for some things and it's right for others. So I get what you're saying about that. ((Quick)) I had to look back to see what you got :haha: Sad, I know, I got a little wordy, verbose and switched up, but I look at it like that. We have to look deeper and question all that's written or reported; but Motowners, Martha & the Vandellas included are music pioneers. I'd love to see music return to that (not the corruptness) but the newness, innovation of the Motowners, ya know I'm left with my Motown and the stuff I sniff out nowadays
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 19, 2006 0:08:17 GMT -5
But you know, I can trash Diana, I can trash the Supremes, the Miracles, some Smokey joints, BUT I'll tell you, I enjoy everything they have done actually (maybe it's because I'm too crazy about Marvin and Martha, lol) but all of the music released by all the Motown artists between 1959 and, uh, say, 1984 were some of the best music ever and compared to TODAY'S music, I'd rather hear more of Diana's "do you know where u going to?" than Beyonce's "Deja Vu". So Diana/Supremes have lasting value too. I do wish music returned back to that time tho too.
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Post by rainymourning on Jul 19, 2006 19:32:40 GMT -5
Motown do means so much, we just all gotta send a message that it was more to it than what historians have told us. It wasn't all done by one man and yeah the label may have been a collective teamwork kind of thing but people are either ignoring or forgetting the people who actually put the Mo into the Town, the Hits into Hitsville, the Funk into the Funk Brothers. To hear the Brothers tell you how they got by without getting recognized is sad but it's also sad when in the same documentary, some young turk said "Deputy Dawg could've been on it and it would've been a hit with the Funks"... oh no, no, no, no... you have a LOT of talented SANGERS who could make your instrumentation a hit. Berry Gordy didn't produce all the records, he didn't write all the hits, he didn't even play an instrument on anything unless it was for one key. But people like to think it's all because of one big man that this is how it came about and it sickens me the kind of responses BG gets. It adds into his ego. They would say Berry, Diana and Smokey were the major contributors to Motown add Stevie and Marvin to the spot then say "oh and there were the Temptations, the Four Tops, Martha Reeves & the Vandellas, Gladys Knight, the Jacksons, who else? What was that girl group that had that song the Carpenters did?" I mean, that's what it all boils down to me. I have to agree with you because this is what I don't like. Whenever the mainstream chooses it's favorite, that is all we are going to hear about for a long time, and in Motown's case it has been that way for the last 40 plus years. The fans and the lesser known contributors know that it isn't fair that a very elite group recieve all the praise, which is what I think led to that comment in the Standing In The Shadows documentary. It sounds absurd to us, but it also allows us to catch a glimpse of how hurt those musicans must have been also. It's no doubt that the singers could make those songs hits however, could you imagine something like Sugar Pie Honey Bunch by the Tops being as infectious as it is without that particular bassline pattern?? There are just so many different things we can take into account when having these types of discussions
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Post by rainymourning on Jul 19, 2006 19:39:18 GMT -5
To step out of Motown, it's all about politics and money. You can make them money, but the politics will dictate who get's the "play". That's the true American way; You got it right there!!
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 19, 2006 20:08:27 GMT -5
Motown do means so much, we just all gotta send a message that it was more to it than what historians have told us. It wasn't all done by one man and yeah the label may have been a collective teamwork kind of thing but people are either ignoring or forgetting the people who actually put the Mo into the Town, the Hits into Hitsville, the Funk into the Funk Brothers. To hear the Brothers tell you how they got by without getting recognized is sad but it's also sad when in the same documentary, some young turk said "Deputy Dawg could've been on it and it would've been a hit with the Funks"... oh no, no, no, no... you have a LOT of talented SANGERS who could make your instrumentation a hit. Berry Gordy didn't produce all the records, he didn't write all the hits, he didn't even play an instrument on anything unless it was for one key. But people like to think it's all because of one big man that this is how it came about and it sickens me the kind of responses BG gets. It adds into his ego. They would say Berry, Diana and Smokey were the major contributors to Motown add Stevie and Marvin to the spot then say "oh and there were the Temptations, the Four Tops, Martha Reeves & the Vandellas, Gladys Knight, the Jacksons, who else? What was that girl group that had that song the Carpenters did?" I mean, that's what it all boils down to me. I have to agree with you because this is what I don't like. Whenever the mainstream chooses it's favorite, that is all we are going to hear about for a long time, and in Motown's case it has been that way for the last 40 plus years. The fans and the lesser known contributors know that it isn't fair that a very elite group recieve all the praise, which is what I think led to that comment in the Standing In The Shadows documentary. It sounds absurd to us, but it also allows us to catch a glimpse of how hurt those musicans must have been also. It's no doubt that the singers could make those songs hits however, could you imagine something like Sugar Pie Honey Bunch by the Tops being as infectious as it is without that particular bassline pattern?? There are just so many different things we can take into account when having these types of discussions Yeah, I see what you mean. The Funk Brothers were truly the unsung heroes of the sound and it was unfair that for years Motown shelved them like leftovers the same way they shelved so many from the Marvelettes, Marv Johnson, the rest of the Miracles, Florence Ballard (to a lesser extent), etc., until 40 years later. It's a shame that it had to be this way but Hit Factory is right, it's all politics and that's unfortunate considering how much of a collective label Motown was once upon a time.
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Post by Motorcity on Jul 20, 2006 11:04:24 GMT -5
It's a shame that it had to be this way but Motown Honey is right, it's all politics and that's unfortunate considering how much of a collective label Motown was once upon a time. :isthatforreal: ((Motown Honey)) :isthatforreal: ((Quick)) You are doing me like Berry did his artists right now :scratchhead: "...As I stand alone......" :whistle:
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 20, 2006 11:48:39 GMT -5
Yeah, I meant Hit Factory, sorry. :lol:
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 20, 2006 11:50:59 GMT -5
I have to remind myself which one posted and I looked up, you were the only other one that posted, Hits. :lol:
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Post by Diamond Girl on Jul 20, 2006 12:16:55 GMT -5
I have to remind myself which one posted and I looked up, you were the only other one that posted, Hits. Alright, brutha As long as it's ((Mo)) I know it could have been worse You know I'm just jokin' about Berry, I'd never really compare you to that punk puppeteer Factory is the DJ, Cleo's the Rapper
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 20, 2006 14:31:44 GMT -5
Thanks, Cleo. :love:
I got y'all now, lol.
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Kay
Star
*~*Floever A Star*~*
Posts: 1,326
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Post by Kay on Jul 25, 2006 19:19:46 GMT -5
And going back to the R&R Hall of Fame or (Hall of Shame), you know that there have been only THREE all female groups that have been inducted!?! If there's more, I'm sorry for miscounting, but the ones who got inducted were the Supremes, Vandellas and Shirelles (in THAT exact order). WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THAT!?! And to quote the Godfather................................. "This is a man's world"And it's not even fair to all of the men, look at Ronnie White Most of the Funks, the pioneering Funks I could go on, but you know where it'd end up. It's really political, the whole Motown scene. It makes us fight for those artists who are pretty much disregarded, overlooked, and d*amn near forgotten. If not for their fans, it would be, let's see Smokey (without the Miracles), Diana Ross and the Supremes (even though DRAT didn't accomplish or even maintain much), Marvin, Stevie, and the Jackson Five (believe it or not). And last but not least, Berry. You may catch a glimpse of the Tempts or Tops, but only a glimpse. Motown was so much more (including the overly publicized). It's the main reason Classic, Hits, and myself wanted to maintain a community. Motown means so much to so many; it's music, musicians, writers and artists. Glad to say I'm a part of this community The talent at Motown was overwhelming, even now as we look back we can see that. But I'm not sure if Berry was trying to make as much money as possible in that moment or if he was just simply clueless as in how to promote certain artists to their core audiences
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Post by Diamond Girl on Jul 25, 2006 19:23:48 GMT -5
And to quote the Godfather................................. "This is a man's world"And it's not even fair to all of the men, look at Ronnie White Most of the Funks, the pioneering Funks I could go on, but you know where it'd end up. It's really political, the whole Motown scene. It makes us fight for those artists who are pretty much disregarded, overlooked, and d*amn near forgotten. If not for their fans, it would be, let's see Smokey (without the Miracles), Diana Ross and the Supremes (even though DRAT didn't accomplish or even maintain much), Marvin, Stevie, and the Jackson Five (believe it or not). And last but not least, Berry. You may catch a glimpse of the Tempts or Tops, but only a glimpse. Motown was so much more (including the overly publicized). It's the main reason Classic, Hits, and myself wanted to maintain a community. Motown means so much to so many; it's music, musicians, writers and artists. Glad to say I'm a part of this community The talent at Motown was overwhelming, even now as we look back we can see that. But I'm not sure if Berry was trying to make as much money as possible in that moment or if he was just simply clueless as in how to promote certain artists to their core audiences I'll go with that ((Kay)) Clueless it is
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Post by timmy84 on Jul 28, 2006 19:24:55 GMT -5
Yeah, Berry was dumb in that department. No wonder the artists had grudges over him, that and he was messing with Diane... :whistle:
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Post by rainymourning on Jul 30, 2006 17:03:36 GMT -5
And to quote the Godfather................................. "This is a man's world"And it's not even fair to all of the men, look at Ronnie White Most of the Funks, the pioneering Funks I could go on, but you know where it'd end up. It's really political, the whole Motown scene. It makes us fight for those artists who are pretty much disregarded, overlooked, and d*amn near forgotten. If not for their fans, it would be, let's see Smokey (without the Miracles), Diana Ross and the Supremes (even though DRAT didn't accomplish or even maintain much), Marvin, Stevie, and the Jackson Five (believe it or not). And last but not least, Berry. You may catch a glimpse of the Tempts or Tops, but only a glimpse. Motown was so much more (including the overly publicized). It's the main reason Classic, Hits, and myself wanted to maintain a community. Motown means so much to so many; it's music, musicians, writers and artists. Glad to say I'm a part of this community The talent at Motown was overwhelming, even now as we look back we can see that. But I'm not sure if Berry was trying to make as much money as possible in that moment or if he was just simply clueless as in how to promote certain artists to their core audiences I agree with you and ((Cleo)) although my answer is basically a re wording of your post. I believe that Berry was clueless because he had too much talent on the label
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