What if...David Ruffin had stayed on?

[mpgfan]

I'm sure this may have been talked about but since i'm new here i'll ask it.

What if David Ruffin had stayed on with the Temptations instead of being forced out of the group?

I know that he was becoming a distraction and not going to recordings on time etc etc but he was still THE voice of the Temptations to me. I think that that certain spark the group had disappeared without him. (actually I think the apex of the Tempts was "Just my Imagination")

David lived a very rough life mainly due to his addiction to cocaine. near the end of his life he was completely enslaved to the drug and emanciated beyond belief but he sure as hell didn't let that stop him from performing like gangbusters on stage.

Going back to my topic tho I don't know how commercially successful they would've been. I mean I don't really see David's voice working with some of the psychedelic and social awareness stuff that they did after he left. Maybe they'd have evolved from their previous sound and turned out sounding like the O'Jays?

Look forward to replies :thumbsup:

[timmy84]

You know, back some five years ago, I would've said that it was necessary to move on to the next man to make that next step in music but at the same time, David, alongside Eddie, WAS the voice of the Temptations and his influence on singers today is groundbreaking. Who else could've influenced Michael Jackson to sing a hell-raising rendition of "Who's Loving You?" after David had done it, Bobby Womack also owes debt for David vocally, as do K-Ci of Jodeci and all of that. I mean, yeah, I don't think his voice would've fit the changing of the times. I think the Tempts would've had to evolve anyway in order to survive in the fickle market of the music industry but it's a tough decision. But everyone does agree that after David left that the magic faded. Even now, most people who listened to Motown in the past and present remember the Temptations as having David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams, Melvin Franklin and Otis Williams...and then Dennis Edwards, but nobody else after that. It's really difficult to say, but if David had stayed, I think they would've found a more subtle way to talk about socially conscious topics and love songs and still be relevant like the O'Jays were in the '70s and let it be known the O'Jays DID replace the Tempts as the top black male vocal group of music in the 1970's so who knows? But David's exit was probably bound to happen. You see what I'm saying?

[~MsChelle~]

timmy84 said:

You know, back some five years ago, I would've said that it was necessary to move on to the next man to make that next step in music but at the same time, David, alongside Eddie, WAS the voice of the Temptations and his influence on singers today is groundbreaking. Who else could've influenced Michael Jackson to sing a hell-raising rendition of "Who's Loving You?" after David had done it, Bobby Womack also owes debt for David vocally, as do K-Ci of Jodeci and all of that. I mean, yeah, I don't think his voice would've fit the changing of the times. I think the Tempts would've had to evolve anyway in order to survive in the fickle market of the music industry but it's a tough decision. But everyone does agree that after David left that the magic faded. Even now, most people who listened to Motown in the past and present remember the Temptations as having David Ruffin, Eddie Kendricks, Paul Williams, Melvin Franklin and Otis Williams...and then Dennis Edwards, but nobody else after that. It's really difficult to say, but if David had stayed, I think they would've found a more subtle way to talk about socially conscious topics and love songs and still be relevant like the O'Jays were in the '70s and let it be known the O'Jays DID replace the Tempts as the top black male vocal group of music in the 1970's so who knows? But David's exit was probably bound to happen. You see what I'm saying?

I agree with you, timmy84. :thumbsup:

[Diamond Girl]

The long and short is that to many fans April 1968 was the ending for the Tempts. Living during that time, you just couldn't understand, you didn't accept Dennis, at first.

In all honesty, the Tempts were done when the voice of Paul Williams was no longer heard. Save Papa Was A Rolling Stone, Paul was the constant voice you hear with the leads of Dennis, David, Eddie and Paul himself. Any true music fan knows, can hear and will admit that. Without that voice, the Tempts weren't able to carry on, perservere or move in a new direction.

In latter years, you hear stories of David's addiction, not that we didn't know then, his grand-standing (for lack of a better term) and his disregard to the needs and success of the group. Who knows if it's true? I do recall a few articles, in 1968 around David being fired, not by his bandmates, but by Motown and subsequently dropped from the label. He was later resigned, guess they realized what a gift he had. And after a few legal battles, he was required to remain at the label.

I think David wanted to be a part of a group, of this group, he just couldn't get past the way they were treated or regarded at Motown.

Anyone who saw them in concert would know, David Ruffin never appeared to believe he was the Temptations. On that stage, they all treated each other as equals, well the three leads. They played off of each other, and each of the leads, Paul, Eddie and David, all had something about them, and they played it up to the fullest on stage. And their comraderie off stage was amazing also. If it was an act, they were all in the wrong business!

David is the most well known of their leads, but even he didn't appear to take anything away from his lead mates, Paul, Eddie and even Dennis, after him.

So, do I think they would have been as successful with David as Dennis, possibly. They would definitely have to alter what Dennis was perfect at doing. Some say the material the O'Jays received was meant for the Tempts, that all of the male groups following were patterned after what Paul and Eddie created as the Temptations. I think they may have felt a lull if David was still on, but by the time they got a new producer, some new material and a new label, they would have had a resurgence.

[mpgfan]

jazzy said:

In all honesty, the Tempts were done when the voice of Paul Williams was no longer heard. Save Papa Was A Rolling Stone, Paul was the constant voice you hear with the leads of Dennis, David, Eddie and Paul himself. Any true music fan knows, can hear and will admit that. Without that voice, the Tempts weren't able to carry on, perservere or move in a new direction.

That's interesting what you say about Paul Williams. My absolute favourite lines in any Temptations song is the part in "just my imagination" when Paul sings

"Every night, on my knees I pray,
"Dear Lord, hear my plea...
don't ever let another take her love from me
or I will surely die.."

I'm assuming you were around during their heyday so could you expand more on your point about Paul Williams?

[Diamond Girl]

mpgfan said:

jazzy said:

In all honesty, the Tempts were done when the voice of Paul Williams was no longer heard. Save Papa Was A Rolling Stone, Paul was the constant voice you hear with the leads of Dennis, David, Eddie and Paul himself. Any true music fan knows, can hear and will admit that. Without that voice, the Tempts weren't able to carry on, perservere or move in a new direction.

That's interesting what you say about Paul Williams. My absolute favourite lines in any Temptations song is the part in "just my imagination" when Paul sings

"Every night, on my knees I pray,
"Dear Lord, hear my plea...
don't ever let another take her love from me
or I will surely die.."

I'm assuming you were around during their heyday so could you expand more on your point about Paul Williams?

If you're asking me for details on his voice being their constant during all of their hits, the best would be to listen to their most popular songs and if you know his voice, you can distinctly and clearly hear Paul. And if you don't know his voice, you will hear the commanding baritone in the backgrounds and stand outs, and that is Paul.

Melvin was there and Damon had some similarities with Eddie's falsetto, but there was no punch from a baritone. Prior to 1971, the high tenor was clearly heard, the bass heard at times, but the baritone was always there giving the harmonies character and distinction

The harmonies were not as lush, precise or robust
Papa was a carryover, as were most of their songs prior to the disco craze and before departing Motown the first time, of the Psychedelic Soul craze. Was there a difference, I don't think so. They got stuck in that particular classification of Soul. Their success, as I should have typed before perserverance and movement, beyond Papa, was not seen, truthfully. The fact that there is still some grouping of the Temptations is not an argument in their favor. It's more a mockery than a testament or legacy.

Give a few of those standards a listen and then listen to anything after 1971 and you'll see what I mean. Even though, I heard songs from Solid Rock and All Directions and it sounds suspiciously like I hear Paul.

[timmy84]

The Temptations as we knew them died after "Just My Imagination" was released in 1971. The deaths of Paul, David, Eddie and Melvin just made it worse. And now all you got is Otis and some replacements. The group that got into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is not the group you hear today. They say 'Temptations' but I can't recognize them. Really when Paul actually left this earth in '73, the Temptations were dead IMO and their output went from bad to worse. It's as simple as that. If David had stayed, the Temptations would've been the most unstoppable group today even if they didn't score no more hits.

[Emerald City]

((Funk)) and ((T84)) ...We are definitley on the same page.....

[Kay]

jazzy said:

[

The fact that there is still some grouping of the Temptations is not an argument in their favor. It's more a mockery than a testament or legacy.

And that is why I can't stand them. When i was stuck watching the Imitations in November I couldn't help but be irriated when Ron was coming out with dumb comments such as 'we're gonna take you back with this one' All I could say (or holla rather) was :stop: take us back with what You ain't even on the d*mn record!! :bonk:

[Kay]

timmy84 said:

Really when Paul actually left this earth in '73, the Temptations were dead IMO and their output went from bad to worse. It's as simple as that. If David had stayed, the Temptations would've been the most unstoppable group today even if they didn't score no more hits.

Yep! And somebody better tell Otis because his duracell hasn't run out yet his crew just become more and more annoying :frustration:

[timmy84]

Otis about 100 years old talkin' about "I'm keeping up with the legacy of the Temptations". Stop mocking yourselves. The Temptations ain't nothing but "Otis Williams & the Imitations". And should we even give Otis respect for more than just being an original and founding member of the group? He should retire in his mansion and stop ruining the Temptations' legacy. It IS annoying. :frustration:

[Kay]

mpgfan said:

I'm sure this may have been talked about but since i'm new here i'll ask it.

What if David Ruffin had stayed on with the Temptations instead of being forced out of the group?

I know that he was becoming a distraction and not going to recordings on time etc etc but he was still THE voice of the Temptations to me. I think that that certain spark the group had disappeared without him. (actually I think the apex of the Tempts was "Just my Imagination")

David lived a very rough life mainly due to his addiction to cocaine. near the end of his life he was completely enslaved to the drug and emanciated beyond belief but he sure as hell didn't let that stop him from performing like gangbusters on stage.

Going back to my topic tho I don't know how commercially successful they would've been. I mean I don't really see David's voice working with some of the psychedelic and social awareness stuff that they did after he left. Maybe they'd have evolved from their previous sound and turned out sounding like the O'Jays?

Look forward to replies

I think David could sing anything but in this case all we can do is imagine. I think he could have sung the psychedelic material well but I don't know if the songs would have been that big on the charts. Maybe having Dennis come in is what kept people from getting bored

[timmy84]

Dennis was perfect for the grittier, funky material. David's a SOUL man. Eddie's a SOUL man. Paul had that gritty, funky side to him, ya know? Melvin had a mixture of doo-wop, soul and funk in him. And Otis was... uh... there.

I think had David stayed, the Tempts would've still been plugging them great soul symphonies.