Underestimated - Underrated - Undervalued

[Diamond Girl]

After a comment by Ant

I started thinking again about Motown's artists. So many questions have run through my head in the past. Like, what ever happened to this group, I remember they had quite a few hits for awhile. Or, why didn't they let so-and-so sing lead, or that verse? Like, I wonder why we didn't know this or that or why wasn't there more articles or appearances by her, him or them. Or, they only speak to one person in a group or they didn't even speak to that group or artist directly. And, wow, I didn't know he or she or they could sing or perform like that; they're really great; why did they let it seem like they, he or she was just there for decoration??

It's unbelievable what you realize after time goes on, or when you think about something.

• Who were the folks underestimated, underrated, and undervalued?
  
• When did it happen to these artists and how on earth did it happen?
  
• Why were these talented folks, people whose voices built a musical empire, relegated as unnecessary or dispensable?
  
• Was it justified or just persuasive?
  

Some things to think about
While you post away

[antceleb12]

Hmmm.....there are many answers to all of these questions, but I think the most logical might be Berry Gordy. (Not to hard to figure lol)

He, afterall, decided who would speak, take lead, do what, say what, wear what, stay how long, stay where, etc etc.

However, there are other things regarding some of these questions such as why didnt they make more appearances. The biggest factor is probably was that Motown was like a monster. It would create you, but then if you left and tried to do your own thing, it would most likely destroy you, such as Mary Wells and Florence Ballard.

Another reason for these decisions was because Gordy (most of the time) knew what he was doing when "he made" the hits. The quotations are there because, despite Gordy's claims, many if not half of the work was put in by the artists, musicians, and esp the writters and producers.

But those who probably worked their butts off the most were some of artists themselves. For example, ever since Gordy focused on the Supremes, the Marvelettes and ESP Martha Reeves. Martha is esp known for her Flo Ballard like attitude during this time. She was often not giving a you know what about Gordy, and, consiquently, did not have a hit after 1967. However, for Flo, it would ultimately lead her to alchohol and death. But many of these started focusing on Motown's change and Diana Ross being ran out of the group. (Personally, I don't think it was mainly Gordy who took her oout, I think it was Flo who ran her out! ) lol, but in all seriousness I think Flo and Martha's rebellion had a major decision in where Motown would be heading from that moment on.

Also, with Gordy's focus on Diane, the other artists, even the other Supremes were slowly being somewhat put into their place from that moment. After 1967, there would never be that old-Motown-style, dance-beat style, big wig, ruffle dress Motown-style again. With a few exceptional bits and pieces here and there (eg the unreleased "Treat Me Nice John Henry" by the Supremes - which sound like Flo is on it but its with Cindy).

Anyways, most of the effect was by Gordy...no surprise! lol

[Diamond Girl]

Yeah we hear alot about Martha Reeves' feelings and comments, but Katherine Anderson (the Marvelettes) said everyone was speaking about the unfavorable positions they'd been placed in. Gladys Knicght has said the same, so has Brenda Holloway, earlier and Kim Weston has also spoken of the conversation and issues at Motown during that time. I can't remember if Carolyn Gill has said much, I know she'd spoken about how Florence felt and spoke out.

But, I think it's more than that. BG was focused on Diane, but he had his eyes open, everywhere. He used Smokey and even he took on some of those qualities, like with the Marvelettes. I think Berry, Smokey, HDH, Johnny Bristol, Norman Whitfield, and all of the producers/writers were calling themselves putting people in their place. I understand if a record doesn't sell, but a lot of the ones that did so well, did so because they put EVERYTHING behind them. No matter if they were good or whatever, and it was at the expense of the other artists or members of a group and the music. I've said for years, think about how much more successful and how long the label could have thrived, by meerly showing some uniformity in releases, promotions and diversity in vocal and musical sound (a whole lot of Motown classics sound like they shared musical tracks).

But I was thinking about people that never really got their chance when I read Ant's post. People like the underrated Barrett Strong, Florence Ballard, Paul Williams, Marvelettes, Kim Weston, Brenda Holloway, Velvelettes, Shorty Long, Contours, & the Miracles, the Elgins, Isley Brothers, Gladys Knight and the Pips, the list goes on and on. We know they all had the talent and ALL had distinct voices, what Berry said was the reason behind the sole lead in the Supremes. So, how did these, to name a few, get overlooked and pushed aside? I know they didn't have the same chances or choices that Diane had, that Smokey had, that Marvin had, etc, so how can people say Berry made the right choice, or Diane, Smokey and Marvin had so much going for them (ok an argument can be made for Marvin, but he wasn't making music the way he could have). They had a favorable position (no pun intended!) with Gordy.

It's just crazy to think of all of the talent that was pretty much wasted or wasting away at Motown. How can a cat be dealt a royal flush and only keep (the) jack and then take four from the dealer? Berry knew a lot, but he didn't know nearly as much as he should have, at least he admits he had his agenda and that's what drove him.

And I say all of that to say (ha!) none of it was justified, just a tactic. As soon as an artist or member or the whole group looked at him the wrong way, the word was out and so were they(how I see it). They were pushed further and further away, unless they were needed for some specific reason, like using a group or a member of a group to get a tv show or while on a tv show, tour, etc.

Having a voice didn't serve you well at this record company

[timmy84]

All of those people you name were very opinionated people who didn't put up with Berry's B.S. Marvin didn't either but he got in because he was married to the boss' sister but once he fell out of love with her, he became more defiant but as for the rest of them, hell yeah, Berry overlooked those talents and instead of bettering their careers just signed them and kept them under the bin until they decided to get out for good.

[Emerald City]

After all of that I think you summed it up right here ... none of it was justified, just a tactic. As soon as an artist or member or the whole group looked at him the wrong way, the word was out and so were they(how I see it). They were pushed further and further away, ... Gordy was a user period, and the people who say he made the right choices obviously do not understand the selfish lengths he went to in order to make sure he stayed a wealthy man ... Strong personalities definitely played a big role in some of the artists being under promoted but I can't help seeing things from their point of view, when you look at it, it's his best friend and ex girlfriend who became the most well off ... I think Gordy felt if you were against his ideas then you were against him (hence all of the P.I's working withing the company and spying on folks)...it's a mircale that Gladys, the Isleys and the Tops had a second chance but I do realise these were artists who came a little later on and probably had a little less information on the boss than a Mary Wells, Kim Weston or Florence Ballard ... None of them had success or royalties once finally being able to leave and others like David Ruffin for example were tied and bound so nobody else could have them...

[fantagurl]

The one artist that rebelled against,spoke his mind,and didn`t take no mess,was Stevie Wonder. After he turned 21 he threatened to leave Motown if he didn`t receive his royalties. Not only that he took creative control over his music and worked with other artists.

[Diamond Girl]

Stevie was and is the rebel

[Kay]

fantagurl said:

The one artist that rebelled against,spoke his mind,and didn`t take no mess,was Stevie Wonder. After he turned 21 he threatened to leave Motown if he didn`t receive his royalties. Not only that he took creative control over his music and worked with other artists.

I think by then Berry knew that if he let Stevie have his way his pockets would be fine for along time, because Stevie didn't give any trouble so to speak, and not only was everybody else was quickly becoming tired of Berry's antics but he also knew that he would soon be ready to wash his hands of alot of people